Betty Dodson with Carlin Ross

Better Orgasms. Better World.

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I think it's more a case of breaking the aggreement you have with your partner. For most people, once they call themselves boyfriend or girlfriend it implicitly means monogamy. If you want to sleep with other people, you must discuss it with your partner first because it's deceitful. There's nothing wrong (and a lot right) with open relationships, but there is a LOT wrong with breaking someone's trust willingly.

I don't think what she or he  did was right. I think breaking someones trust who loves you is really sad. Breaking trust is what I define as cheating. If your poly and you both agree not to have procreative sex with anyone else because it goes beyond your agreed sexual health risk boundaries, and then you have procreative sex with someone, you've broken your word and trust.
If your whipping someone and they say the safe word and you don't stop, you've broken trust. I think breaking trust is usually (though not always) catastrophic. 
If your talking about how we arive at the agreement that is broken by cheating then that is a completely different thing. and that we should'nt just blindly accept serial monogamy without thinking but have an open mind and discussion about trust levels and risk levels and personal boundaries, I'm with you, I think we should. But once we've done that and created our own kind of partnership we should keep our word. or if it's not working say so and re-open the descusion. If giving love to each other is the priority for both parttners and you have a loving friendship then that's when we have the best chances of success I think.

I agree with Jake E. Cheating is wrong, and it has nothing to do with sex, and everything to do with trust and agreements. I'm poly. I abhor cheating more than almost anything else. No one has ever cheated on me and I have never cheated on anyone else.

It is a fundamental lack of honesty and communication, two of the most important keys to any relationship, whether it's platonic, romantic, or purely sexual.

Aside from the emotional aspects of breaking trust and promises, there is the very real physical risk. If a person doesn't know what their partner is doing, they can't make informed decisions about the risk involved. My partners and I are fluid-bound. Cheating in our relationship might involve unprotected sex with someone. That means everyone in the relationship is exposed to the possible consequences of that action nonconsensually. And to me, consent is of fundamental importance.

As Jake E. said, if a relationship agreement isn't working, then the person for whom it isn't working should bring it up, open communications about the nature of the relationship boundaries. The agreements in my relationships change all the time as we learn and grow. If something isn't working, then maybe the rules need to change. Or, if they can't, then maybe that relationship isn't the right one for everyone involved and people need to reconsider it -- before trust is broken.

The biggest problem that I see with the idea of “cheating” is that it’s based on the underlying idea that our partners are children, or worse yet - personal property. Cheating is a completely made up idea that represents yet another way of controlling the genitals of our partners."

love it, thank you LL.

While I'm in basic agreement with Jake -- that if has an agreement then one should stick to it -- the problem I have with what he said is in the second sentence ([= 14px; line-height: 22px]I think breaking someones trust who loves you is really sad[/]). It's not that that is wrong, it is that there is an assumption that most people are sufficiently informed about the existence of legitimate alternative sexual codes apart from exclusive monogamy. Most people are not. Yes, they do know of them, but the only connotations surrounding these non-monogamous unions are negative and tinged with guilt, sin and so on. 

I have argued in other spaces that many people who "stray" never set out to do so, that they felt that they could live with the expectations of being sexually and/or emotionally exclusive, that they do believe the implied (and explicit) message that they and their spouse are "enough." The problem is that that is based on ideas of monogamy and exclusivity that have been imposed on all of us since childhood and reinforced by soap operas, fairy tales, any number of love songs on the radio and of course the pulpit. 

And it's still a pernicious lie; it's still an idea that was developed when ancient patriarchists saw women as sexual property. That religious texts lend credence to this only means that "god" got corralled into it because you can't (supposedly) challenge god. 

My point is that there should indeed be communication among parties as to what is expected. However, that isn't possible until and unless there is more awareness of the origins of our sexual codes and the legitimacy of non-monogamous alternatives. 

I've long felt the idea of "cheating was childish at best. It turns people into victims & encourages people to think of each other not as autonomous adults with a whole host of needs & emotions, but as personal property. If you both agree to a certain set of behaviors & one of you steps outside the boundaries of those agreements then it's time to talk & revisit. The problem is most people make assumptions about what they're agreeing to without discussion or even consideration of what those expectations are. When one person does something not in alignment with those assumed "agreements" then the other person feels free to take on the role of victim & cry foul. Not very adult behaviors at all.

The cheating paradigm creates an environment where any infringement on unspoken & unexamined rules of behavior turns everything into a reflection on the "wronged"  when in fact it may have had very little to do with that person at all. It doesn't even mean the assumed "wronged" party was unloved or considered undesireable by the "cheater". The cheating idea creates a whole host of (most likely incorrect) assumptions about a situation without ever having to have a discussion about it.

I've recently seen a good relationship break up, because they both thought she necessarily had to choose between her current partner and another guy she was falling for. I don't get why people are so hellbent on monogamy; I think it's unrealistic, possessive and selfish to demand it of your partner.
If I found out my partner was "cheating" on me I would be temporarily pissed she didn't trust me enough to be able to request an open relationship, but I certainly wouldn't throw an otherwise good relationship away because of it.

Actually it's good to have this discussion before dating and then throughout the relationship. Hubby and I are monogamous, that's our choice. The reason why monogamy works for me is simple. We are both working and raising children together. Being nonmonogamous would take away time I don't feel like I could spend. Hubby just doesn't like the idea of some other man or woman having sex with me (and if he knows he was engaging in an activity that I have more of a procivity for, there would be hell to pay!) However things might change. What if one of us gets so ill that functioning sexually is no longer an option? What if one of us gets Alzheimer's and doesn't remember the other? Should we end our marriage or just open it to include what's missing? When I see older patients being cared for exclusively by his/her spouse and what that entails, I think that a loving group marriage is worth more than just being able to have more than one sexual partner. Several adults who can share income, chores, childrearing? That sounds like a good idea to me. What if one or both partners are bisexual? I guess for some, monogamy is the same as it is for me, one partner, that's it. I wouldn't want some man to assume that just because we were dating, that I belong to him. My husband is worth monogamy to me, not every man is.

Corey I think breaking the trust of someone who loves you is really sad. It doesn't imply anything other than If monogamy is a problem then honestly say so, don't cheat. The childish part is cheating rather than having the courage, maturity and sexual empowerment to communicate honestly.   

I would say that "cheating"---maybe a better expression would be "trust violation"---occurs when a partner in a committed relationship has sex with someone else in a way that is clearly against the understanding that the two partners have with one another. It's possible to be in a long-term, committed partnership, and be sexually active with others. However, if two partners have promised sexual fidelity (or anything else) to one another, and one or both break their promises in secret, that's a form of dishonesty that's bound to be hurtful.

We are not one another's personal property. We are consenting adults. We have also consented, as adults, to the promises we've made to our partners. And responsible adults keep their promises to the best of their ability. If we're feeling constrained in our relationship, the responsible thing to do is to negotiate a new agreement that allows for outside partners.

In my view, acknowledging that our culture is repressive does not mean that every time we do something culturally unacceptable, we're being adult and daring and innovative and praiseworthy. Our partners are many things to us if we're lucky---best friend, lover, and much more. I'm not willing to hurt the person who means that much to me.

Very well said. Thank you for your comments. I happen to agree that relationships are a matter of trust. Responsible adults keep their promises. If they can't, they ought to negotiate a new understanding with their partner. Or bow out of the relationship so the partner can find a person who values fidelity as much as they do.

You're welcome. I really don't get why people who are dating have the expectation of monogamy. I'm not talking about people who would be married except for the fact that the law is archaic and prohibits it, I'm talking about people who have been dating for a couple of months and have no clear plans. I've been out of the dating game for a while but what I witness seems to be playing house vs. random hookups with little to nothing in between. When I was a young single woman, I dated and was happy to date 2-3 guys at a time. Having all of my emotional eggs in one guy basket caused too much drama. Conversely I also found that just hooking up with guys wasn't for me either. I was much happier dating guys I cared about, I just didn't always want to care about only one of them at once. With my husband, I broke my happy rule and only dated him. While I love him very much and would love to say that our love for each other conquered all drama, it didn't. But marriage has been something different, the warnings that marriage causes people to take each other for granted has actually been a blessing for me. That's probably because I'm weird. But if I ever became single again, I would follow my happy rule and be upfront about it.

You know, the expectation of monogamy even in short relationships seems to be a cultural carry-over. But I'd guess it's also about insecurity. Most of us have a fear of being replaced by someone our lover finds more desirable. But you're right---it doesn't make a lot of sense for people who've only dated a short time to think along those lines.

I'm curious whether the two or three guys you were dating were also dating several women at the same time, and for the same reasons. If they were, I guess you were all right with it. Maybe spreading things out, so to speak, cuts down on the drama when we know we're really not ready to settle down with just one person. Your "happy rule" is interesting---I don't know many people who have even tried it. Speaking of your marriage, did you mean that the warnings about married partners taking each other for granted have made you more determined that that's not going to happen to you if you can help it?

When I was younger, hooking up wasn't as common as it seems to be now. I had a female friend in college who wasn't conventionally attractive, and she unfortunately had little self-confidence as a result. I'm not sure she ever had a steady relationship. She'd go to bars, pick up random guys, spend the night with them, and then do it again with somebody else. It made me sad, because I thought she should have valued herself a lot more. I'm sure people have various reasons for no-strings hook-ups, but low self-esteem has got to be one of them. I'm sure my friend's one-night stands were not because she had a sense of adventure or wanted that much variety in her love life.

Monogamy may seem purely like a straitjacket invented by monotheistic moralists to keep people in line, but that isn't the whole story. Monogamy appears to date back hundreds of thousands of years into human prehistory.There was some evolutionary advantage to it, evidently. It's certainly not the only possible way of relating, but it has a long and legitimate history! And I totally agree that being up front about our choices and preferences, from the beginning, is the honorable thing to do whatever our life style.

"What every shred of evidence shows is that people “cheat” - a lot. Maybe cheating is not the problem at all. Maybe our cultural fairy tales about sex and cheating are the problem because they don’t match reality."
Lying to your partner about your sexual activity or emotional commitments is not "matching" your relationship to reality either.  Moreover, married women in their 20s, 30s and 40s are the fastest growing group of people being treated for STDs - thanks to their cheating husbands.  THAT is viewing your partner as an object.

At the time I was poly, I know that the guys I was dating were also seeing other women. I didn't like strictly casual sex, I wanted to at least be friends with the guy I was seeing, but at that time of my life, being committed to just one man wasn't for me. I had a few random hookups and felt cheap and dirty after them. One thing about my husband is that we started as friends, then progressed as lovers. I know it would hurt him if I gave my body to another person so out of respect for him, I don't. But truly, if either of us were to spend time trying to cultivate another lover, that would take time away from our own relationship, or even keeping our own house clean. There's more than just my desires or his. Our marriage contains our family as well. Plus anyone who knows me knows that I am crazy about my husband and would not do anything that would make him unhappy.But if there was a reason for us to explore being non-monogamous in order to maintain our marriage, I would be all for it.

I think I can totally understand your choices to honor your marriage and respect your spouse's feelings. I feel very much the same way. I too have never been comfortable having sex with someone I didn't at least know and like. I've dated more than one woman at a time, but only casually---not for sex. You and your husband have a family---that and your marriage have to come first. Our relationships and our loved ones are what's really important in life. Gratifying temporary attractions is not. I'm certainly attracted to other people sometimes (my wife too), but I make a conscious choice not to act on it.

My wife and I were together for years before we actually married. People began to joke about our endlessly long "engagement". But we've been together, and monogamous, for many years now. Nothing is ever perfect---like all of us, there are things we both wish were different. But it's still good to be together, and we're still friends.

I think I don't agree with you Carlin, I know that maybe it sounds old fashioned but love and sex are together, you first love someone and then you have sex or you just feel like having sex and you have sex.
For me, if I have a relationship envolving the word "love" and "sex" and want my partner to be loyal to me, why would you have sex with someone else when your share something spiritual with your partner?I think that when sex envolves love cheating becomes a spiritual damage.
In my opinion: you have a loyal and stable relationship or you change partners very often and enjoy sex with different people.