Ejaculation Is Not Always an Orgasm

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 07:40
Submitted by Betty Dodson

Many people believe that female and male ejaculation is proof that someone has had an orgasm. This is not always the case. I’ll admit that female squirting whether involuntary, learned or forced is fun to see.  It’s the same reason consumers of X rated clips want to see a penis shooting semen. Both responses give porn consumers visual proof that the person has had an orgasm. However, this is simply not always true for women or for men.

Recently I’ve had women wanting to know how to stop ejaculating. They hate the mess and some complain that after their lover makes them squirt, they stop further stimulation assuming she’s had an orgasm.  I haven’t discussed male ejaculation that much because I’ve rarely had a man say his inability to ejaculate was a problem. Many men want to know how to keep from ejaculating in order to extend pleasure in sexual intercourse. But just recently, I received a question from a sexologist asking me about a client. He’s in his early 50s and hasn’t been able to ejaculate either with a partner or alone. She has yet to discover if he experiences orgasms without ejaculation. He has no known medical problems and is not taking any meds that might interfere. This has been a life long problem for him.  She wanted to know if I'd ever dealt with a similar case.

I told her I’d known several men who practiced the Taoist method of semen retention to increase their mental and physical powers. But they can and do experience orgasm, just without any semen being expelled. However, I'd never heard of a man who wanted to ejaculate but couldn’t except this one guy who was so terrified of getting a woman pregnant that even when using some form of contraception he still couldn’t do it.

I contacted my friend Paul Nelson (paul@franktalk.org) who runs a website for men who have sex problems. Paul has personally dealt with ED (erectile dysfunction) after having his prostate removed due to cancer. His is an experiential voice which is the kind I trust most when it comes to dealing with human sexuality.

Paul said the following: “If he’s never been able to ejaculate either with masturbation or with a partner, he definitely has a medical condition. If this was his choice that’s one thing, but when it comes to orgasm, they are two entirely separate events for men. Male ejaculation is a lower spinal cord reflex to stimulation while an orgasm happens in the brain. If he cannot reach a climax in any form, there are treatments to help with that. If he does orgasm but can’t ejaculate, it could be anything from a lower spinal cord issue to a mental block and anything in between.”

Thinking back, I was curious if some of the men I was having sex with actually had an orgasm. On a few occasions I asked “Did you come?” When they said, “Yeah, that was great!” I wondered what they were feeling as there were no outward signs of orgasm like elevated breathing, increased heart rate, body movements or sounds of pleasure. This is a good example of male ejaculation as a lower spinal cord reflex to stimulation; like when a proctologist puts his finger up a guy’s anus during an exam. The pleasure center in his brain wasn’t affected unless he’d enjoyed anal sex in the past. This would be similar to a woman squirting without any sexual arousal leading up to it.

Paul went on to say that a regular urologist would not be able to help her client. First, he needs to be completely checked to make sure he can physically ejaculate. He might have blocked tubes or missing parts. Then he needs a blood workup to make sure all his blood chemistry levels are fine. After that, a neurologist needs to see if there is communication in the nervous system. Concurrent with all of this should be a sexologist looking at his stimulation and arousal issues. He admitted it was a complicated process.

Very practical information I’d say. The same as I counsel women who do not ejaculate, it doesn’t present a problem unless she or her partner(s) THINK they are missing out on some aspect of sexual pleasure. We need to remember that female ejaculation happens to a minority of women naturally. However, porn consumers love the visual drama; many girls are now struggling to learn how to “female ejaculate” thinking that’s how they’ll have their first orgasm; or a better orgasm or to please a lover who wants to "make her come." We are each responsible for our own orgasms!

Squirting or female ejaculation will either happen naturally or a woman will respond to a lover’s fingers briskly stimulating the ceiling of her vagina. Or when she aims a dildo up toward the ceiling of her vagina to engage the urethral sponge that surrounds the urinary tract on the other side. This is actually very indirect clitoral stimulation since the spongy tissue or G spot becomes erect as it fills with blood. Again, this is a lower spinal cord reflex similar to the male getting his prostate exam. In a woman the ejaculating fluid comes from the bladder and is dilute urine with some amount of prostate fluid mixed in. If a woman has weak PC muscles or urinary incontinence, the fluid is just urine. As long as female orgasm remains a mystery to both women and men, any overt sign of pleasure will be welcomed by both especially when it has a visual component.

We never think men have a problem when it comes to ejaculating. If anything most men struggle to hold off ejaculation in order to enjoy the pleasurable sensations of thrusting inside a lover’s vagina. If he can’t ejaculate, it’s only a problem relative to procreation. However we know that women can and do get pregnant without experiencing any kind of sexual pleasure. If she does squirt and her partner assumes she’s climaxed, she’ll be left high but not dry without an orgasm while lying on wet sheets. Sadly he’ll figure his job is done and stop further activity. Unfortunately most young girls are unable to voice any kind of a preference even if they know what they like or dislike. So once again she will join the legion of women who end up faking orgasm to please him. Yet the most exciting thing for any man is to be with a woman who is having authentic orgasms.

The majority of women’s orgasms do not involve squirting. While our orgasmic patterns have some similarities to men, we still function quite differently. It’s no wonder women are asking me how to stop squirting. It simply requires asking her lover to stop focusing on stroking inside her vagina and pay more attention to her external clitoris.

While making a woman empty her bladder might be viewed as a fun game and even feel somewhat pleasant to her, it doesn’t have the same degree of satisfaction as having a fuller orgasm. The best way to achieve this is with direct clitoral stimulation manually or with a vibrator along with vaginal penetration with a finger, dildo or penis. This is what I call the “Combination Orgasm” that is favored by most sexually sophisticated women.

Truth is that most of us still have much to learn about human sexuality, but until we put all organized religions on the back burner, improve the quality of porn with information that includes women’s authentic orgasms; the age old battle between the sexes continues.

We need an illustrated sex education that’s easily accessible created by orgasmic women and the men who love them. This requires artists, sexologists and sexual scientists all working together to create a more enlightened form of sex information and education. This body of sexual knowledge must be easily available through an uncensored Internet and eventually taught in our public schools. I know, I know. You’re thinking, “Betty, don’t hold your breathe.” However, I believe it’s quite possible and that I will live to see this happen before I leave the planet.

Liberating women one orgasm at a time

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Don't agree on the urine part

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:17
Dotty (not verified)

Only recently I started to experience squirting. It happened when I was fingered by my partners and while I will admit it was not an orgasm as I know orgasm it sure felt VERY GOOD. One night my partner made me squirt three times and on the third time I expelled so much fluid it shocked me and I thought for a moment I might have peed on the bed. The sex ended and I went straight to the bathroom to pee like A LOT. So from my own experience I can say the squirting fluids are NOT urine.
I really hope this comment gets published - in the past I have posted comments at dodsonandross which never appeared and just seemed to disappear in internet nirvana.
Best wishes from Berlin
D

Fascinating information and a great article

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:34

Dr Betty, thanks for an excellent and well-written article that I think clears up a lot of misinformation about orgasm and ejaculation, both female and male. I saw a film clip recently of a woman masturbating, in which the focus was on her ability to ejaculate. During the session she squirted once or maybe twice without an orgasm. A few minutes later she had a real orgasm, but without any squirting. They were two entirely separate events. I wish more people understood this. Until a few years ago I don't remember anyone even talking about 'female ejaculation' or thinking it was an important thing to be able to do. I've noticed that apparently the porn producers are now making contrived, misleading movies that supposedly feature female ejaculation, which only adds to the confusion about it. So I hope your point of view becomes more widely known and accepted.

Sorry Dotty but it IS dilute urine with some prostate fluid.

Betty Dodson's picture
Thu, 07/11/2013 - 10:47

This has been proven scientificially in a laboratory. It comes from the bladder. So what's wrong with urine? Why do so many people insist that it's not urine? Just enjoy the experience and stop being so defensive. "Golden Showers" used to be quite a popular sex game in the past.

urine

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 13:13

People insist it is not urine because, horror of horrors, urine is a body waste product. Interestingly, urine used to be used on the battlefield as a sterilizing solution; healthy urine is sterile and bacteria-free. A farmer in the Midwest spoke about using urine on allium crops and said people were shocked. His reply: You don't mind getting in a little metal box and speeding down the highway, but you're scared of urine? We grow fantastic garlic and one of the secrets is -- sshhh -- urine.

My point was

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 15:53
Dotty (not verified)

if all the fluids that I expelled in that night came from my bladder, well, I must have a mega superwoman bladder. I m just telling you from my very own experience that the squirting fluids (whatever they are) smell, taste, feel and look different than good old urine (which I have nothing against it, golden showers are fun by the way)
What I dont like so much about squirting is that beforehand some guys finger you in a somewhat rough and very fast way. So usually I have to slow them down...
This is my experience. Don't you strongly recommend relying on ones own experiences, Betty?

I hope I am explaining myself ok - english is not my maternal language.
What about a theory that it is "water" from the uterus, have you heard about it?

We still know very little about female anatomy.

Betty Dodson's picture
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 10:18

Yes, I support a person's experience BUT Dotty, the bladder never sleeps. It's constantly making more urine. We could learn much more about this marvelous organ but we are so busy altering our outer appearances we just don't get around to it. I'm sure there is a book that might deal wth this or maybe Google has some info. I'll check around and get back to you.
Yes, urine is a sterile product. You can research Urothopy as an approach to healing by injesting one' own urine. My Yoga teacher used to injest an ounce of his fresh urine every morning to replace all the minerals and vitamins lost during sleep. Urine is in many cosmetics and pregnant mares are the source of female hormone replacement. Personally I prefer the soybean plant for HRT but just sayin. . .folks are squemish about all bodily fluids.

urination after sex

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 13:39

If I understand you correctly, Betty, female ejaculation is DILUTE urine. I can imagine that one would have this experience and still be able to have a huge pee after sex. Good sex is very healing for the back, both movement and the orgasms letting energy flow and stimulating the kidneys. Isn't this most people's experience?

Yes. I'm going to find Becky Chalkers book on the bladder.

Betty Dodson's picture
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 15:55

It's a much ignored organ that can cause a heap of misery as anyone will tell you that has suffered a round of UTI's (urinary tract infections). More info to come soon. It has something to do with the lining of the bladder and the fact that it's diluted urine. Patiance my Darlings. I'm on it.

I agree with you Dotty

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 19:18
little jo (not verified)

Had the same experience than Dotty, but I emptied totally my bladder just before poking my ceiling when aroused (I was in the bath with 10cm of water so I could see what happened) and I squirted at least 10-15cc of a cristal clear liquid that tasted sweet. Human beings produce 50cc/hour, there's no way I could have produced 10cc in a couple of minutes, mind Betty... 
It wasn't really enjoyable, I never felt that the urge to pee was a pleasure but I can imagine once you get to know the sensation one might begin to like it. But it left me in sort of an orgasmic state I was feeling really weird and very excited...

thank you

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 06:05
little jo (not verified)

I was so glad to read this post and finally learn more about ejaculation and orgasm... even if I'm not so sure both sexes are so comparable. It's frightening to imagine some people believe squirting is orgasming and you've pointed out the dangers of such a misconception. I do believe a woman can squirt due to the strenght of her orgasm, totally involontarily. But it's not the squirt that is pleasurable, it's what causes it...

I'm not sure 'female ejaculation happens to a minority of women naturally': I think all women squirt at some point, when their low-belly muscles are squeezing very strong but it can be just a few drops or more, when we've got the sensation we're totally wet or even soaked after cumming.

I don't think squirt is mainly pee (and I don't have a problem with pee) for having seen and tasted it myself - see my above experience in the reply to Dotty's. I'm sure I read something saying it was just the opposite (mainly liquid coming from the urethral sponge) but can't find it at the moment...

For what concerns the guys, I would like them to react and tell us their experience... Where's Edgerman?

Orgasm vs. 'ejaculation'

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 13:03

Little jo, with men once we hit puberty orgasm usually coincides with physical ejaculation, but this isn't always so. On occasion men may have retrograde ejaculation into the bladder, for example (this has been sometimes trained deliberately as Dr Betty points out), so in this case there would be no external discharge to serve as 'proof' of orgasm even though orgasm had occurred. I was interested in Dr Betty's query about how some of the men she'd had sex with had claimed to have had orgasms but didn't appear to her to have done so. First, orgasms do naturally vary in strength in men as well as women, from little 'blips' to huge explosions. Second, a few men may have culturally imposed ideas about how it's not 'masculine' to lose visible control of themselves and so they suppress the external signs you'd expect from an orgasm. (Men have also been known to fake it, which is as bad an idea for men as it is for women).

I would add that I know (from very rare personal experience) that it's possible for men as well as women to have orgasms that are extremely prolonged, two to three minutes at a guess if not more. There is no way that I was physically producing liquid for all that time, so orgasm and ejaculation are clearly not identical. Also, it's been noted that some men who can have uninterrupted multiple orgasms can keep having climaxes until their prostates are empty, then continue to have orgasms afterwards that are completely 'dry'. So in men as well as women orgasm does not depend on the expulsion of fluid.

thank you Patrick

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 18:58
little jo (not verified)

 You're exactly writing what my male friends are telling me. Their orgasm goes with a muscular spasm (discharge) - whether semen goes out or is kept inside. But most of the time it goes out. Whether they show the external signals or keep those inside as well. You secretive little things, how are we going to get together now if a guy is faking not to have an orgasm while his female partner is faking to have one? We're both fucked... Sex educators are right when repeating over and over communication is THE key for good sex.

 

In summary, we could say women can squirt without coming and men can come without ejaculating but we both come same way, by relapsing a build-up of sexual energy through a pleasurable muscular spasm while our neural receptors get a dopamine shower. When getting sexually potent, a young male might be confused how easily he can come without getting a lot of reward, I think that's the reason why some guys make a difference between wanking on their own which is just a purely physical enjoyment as they proclaim and 'having an orgasm' with a partner when feelings are shared. And not only that, the experience is heightened through physical contact of other parts of the body; arms, legs, hands, lips all stimulated too. But the same thing happens at the end -even if some of them don't want to admit it, adding to the confusion of the many women not always aware of what an orgasm looks and feels like for what concerns them.

 

That’s the reason why I don't like women's squirt to be called 'ejaculation', even if it is a proper one, for it makes a parallel with what happens to guys where ejaculation normally goes with an orgasm -----> risk of an awful confusion that can lead to women being misunderstood and mistreated again...

 

Women's position is totally different, most of them orgasm easier through masturbation (for lots of reasons) even if for some of us the experience can be transcended by the presence of a partner but basically for us an orgasm is an orgasm, always good to take. And those can be totally dry. Or produce a dramatic gush. Every woman is different and that's what is a wonder; the enormous palette of amazing orgasms we can achieve. 

p.s.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 19:14
little jo (not verified)

I totally agree on what you're saying about multiple orgasms for men. It's true their semen amount gets lower and lower as the orgasms go by but again, it's the discharge spasms that's pleasurable, not the expulsion of an ejaculate...

Btw thats another yin-yang position with women's case: we're often getting bigger and bigger squirts (and orgasms) as they're coming. Pretty cool uh?

Little jo, great observations

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 12:48

Thanks for your very interesting observations. Most of the time guys don't suppress their signs of orgasm, but it can happen. A really stupid thing to do if you ask me---it's a good way to ruin the orgasmic energy you've built up and it's not considerate to one's partner---dishonest. Sort of like faking in reverse! So yes, communication and honesty are key.

Orgasms between women and men are obviously not identical, but they're very similar in how they feel. Somebody once gave expert sexologists descriptions of orgasm written by both men and women, with the gender disguised. Even the experts couldn't tell whether any particular example was written by a woman or by a man. This makes sense, because the sexes share most of the same pelvic muscles and nerve endings and the build-up and discharge of orgasmic energy seems very comparable. By the way, you make an excellent point of how the experiences of orgasm and lovemaking are heightened by the full-body and emotional contact of being with a lover. Masturbation is indispensable but it's awfully nice to have a partner, too!

I agree that it's only confusing to call female squirting 'ejaculation'---it makes people think that squirting has something to do with an orgasm, which we know is often not the case. 'Female ejaculation' is also being exploited for commercial purposes now. For men, there's a lot of pressure NOT to have an orgasm until some arbitrary amount of time has passed---otherwise it's 'premature'. This term is used as if a relatively quick first male orgasm means an abrupt end to the session and will ruin the experience for both partners. But many men can just get hard again and keep going and come again. There's a potential for repeated male orgasms that most men haven't cultivated, partly because they've been told they can't have more than one and so they don't even try. I've seen videos of guys having one orgasm after another; in one case five orgasms in about three minutes (interestingly, he kept ejaculating, too). Our culture promotes shame in men about orgasm and erection: Did he get excited 'too quickly'? What if he 'can't keep it up' and loses that all-important erection? But then men are also told that most women don't even find intercourse all that enjoyable and don't get orgasms that way---lots of mixed and confusing messages going on here! I believe that both women and men need to relax, have fun, and share honest lovemaking without all the pressure.

Yea, I've seen videos of guys

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 15:19
little jo (not verified)

Yea, I've seen videos of guys having multiple orgasms with multiple ejaculations too, as well as guys practicing edging or prostate milking on their own to enhance the experience. Men and women should upgrade and empower their solo-sessions instead of being ashamed for it's through knowing how our bodies work that we're gonna get rid of the myths and confusion about male and female sexuality. And then, if we communicate well with our partner(s) of course, we've got a chance to get our pleasure back during intercourse as well... 
Thank you for this interesting conversation Patrick.

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