Betty Dodson with Carlin Ross

Better Orgasms. Better World.

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I think  bodysex groups aren;t just for women but people with cunts regardless of their gender. There's no reason why Buck angel couldn't be in one.  He has a cunt and feminine energy. I think there are penis owners who have feminine energy but what would our role be in a bodysex group.  As Buck could join an established  bodysex group, someone like Andre Pelic could be a guest in an experimental group, to relate his oppsite experience of sexual autonomyy with a penis while being feminine. Guesting penis owners might be useful or we might not. I think it might be interesting to experiment with later when the bodysex concept is more popular. 

The guy accusing bodysex of sexism is a bit ridiculous. Would a gynocologist who refused to see him be sexist? :) I think the inclusion of people with penises could still be very usefull in many ways as a group but I don't think it would be a bodysex group. I think it would be something else.

I am a man (straight and married) and have written in once or twice
and I couldn't agree more with Betty. Don't let him guilt you into it.
There should be men only groups buy most men are just too uptight. If
he wants to get a group together...good luck to him.

Betty,
forgive me for posting a link but perhaps he could watch this video and
show it to other men. The man in this video tried but it is clear, the
overwhelming majority of men are simply too uncomfortable talking with
anyone about their own penis' especially other men. Here is a link to an eye opening
documentary called "My Penis and Everyone Else's"
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/my-penis-and-everyone-elses good luck to him.

Sincerely,
U

It hurts to be excluded. Whether you're the girl whose friends 'ditched' her at the mall, or the boy picked last for the team. Or whether you're a woman not allowed to own property or stand for office. Or for some people, when they're not allowed to join a group that deeply interests them. But sometimes there are good reasons for group members sharing what's common to them.

I don't see any reason why there couldn't be male 'bodysex' groups. It could be enlightening and healing for many men. There may be films about male sexuality they could share, and there's no reason why they couldn't view and discuss films about female sexuality, too. (Betty's documentaries aren't sold or restricted only to women). Women wouldn't belong in these men's groups, of course---not because they're not valuable, wonderful human beings but because a men's group isn't about them, any more than a women's group is about men. There could (and I think should) be mixed 'bodysex' groups---groups that celebrate our common humanity and sexuality and include any respectful person of any gender or orientation. This could work very well with the right leadership and members, but it's another question altogether.

I am a man (straight and married) and have written in once or twice
and I couldn't agree more with Betty. Don't let him guilt you into it.
There should be men only groups but most men are just too uptight. If
he wants to get a group together...good luck to him. It's not about people being left out it's about people being more comfortable talking about their own bodies in a single sex setting.
Betty, forgive me for posting a link but perhaps he could watch this video and
show it to other men. The man in this video tried but it is clear, the
overwhelming majority of men are simply too uncomfortable talking with
anyone about their own penis' especially other men. Here is a link to an eye opening
documentary called "My Penis and Everyone Else's"
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/my-penis-and-everyone-elses good luck to him.

Sincerely,
U

urpatton, thanks for the link. Starting up a men's 'bodysex' group
wouldn't be as easy as starting up one for women, but it would still be possible. The existence of men's groups would be a start towards making men more comfortable with their own bodies and sexuality---less secretive and self-protective. The factor stopping most Western men from participating in a group like that is (let's be honest) the always-lurking spectre of homosexuality. Very few basically straight men would be comfortable taking their clothes off, discussing their bodies, and (say) masturbating in front of a bunch of men they know is likely to include a good percentage of gay or bi men. We're trained to run from any implication of gayness as if it's the plague, whereas I think the average woman isn't nearly as freaked out ty sharing nudity or sexual intimacies with other women. Women, partly because of the women's movement, seem to have more of a sense of solidarity than men do at the moment.

This can all change. It's my impression that college-age men nowadays are beginning to be less freaked out about sexual variance. My sense of this is that our slowly growing cultural acceptance of gay, lesbian, and bi people is being absorbed by younger persons as they mature, making them more likely to have gay or bi friends and less threatened than men used to be by same-sex thoughts, friendships, or even interactions. Like all societal changes, this one is going to progress slowly, and it's all relative. There are still many prejudices to overcome. But I do see the barriers and irrational fears beginning to break down, and this can only lead to a more accepting and welcoming world.

A final thought would be concerns about transsexual acceptance into bodysex groups targeted at either women or men. Would a post-op transsexual M to F woman be welcomed into a women's group? A non-op M to F who feels like a 'real woman' and wants to join, but doesn't have a vulva? A F to M into a men's group? It really is about exclusion sometimes, and about birth anatomy versus self-perception and self-definition. Who gets to be in the club---and if not, why not? In my opinion these questions need to be asked.

There is a difference between a body sex group and a body sex viewing party. In the latter the participants might keep their clothes on.
- So in this case any man (be he cis or trans) might change the willingness of the women to share at that particular women-only-event.
T, great that you stood your ground and I do hope that he will take up the challenge to host his own viewing and to make the video Betty talked about. :)
(Though I am afraid he preferrs to let other people work and then to critisize and guilt-trip them)