Betty Dodson with Carlin Ross

Better Orgasms. Better World.

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This is both a great question and a classic Betty answer. Wisdom on endorphins. I'm 50  and i can't figure myself out yet. anyhow the worst thing I think we can do is box ourselves off and make decisions that cut us off from feeling what is good and right at the time. We are complex living things with many needs that change with time. that is what makes us so wonderful too. J, why don't you just enjoy yourself rather than trying to categorise yourself?

Yeah nice answer Betty :)

J I think your worried about how to describe yourself to others and how that will effect their view of you. You already know yourself because you've just described your sexuality accurately. and apart from you being worrying about your label your sexuality is fine, you are you.  

Why not just tell other people your bi, but you usually prefer women and that those are your preferences, not your identity. That seems quite simple. 

There is quite a good book on this subject titled "Sexual Fluidity" by Lisa M Diamond. It reports and a study of women who changed, sometimes back a and forth, and theorises on why.

It sounds like you are conflicted because your identity is centered around your sexual identification. You say "I’m really not one of those types who don’t feel the need to identify as something" But it seems like it is important in a way for you so that you can pinpoint who you are and how you live your life (friends, experiences ect.)

Like Betty said this can be confusing, but dont try to box in how you feel. Its ok to like men one day and not like them the next. You are still YOU whether you are able identify your sexuality or not. This is just another aspect of you and you should enjoy it and allow it to enhance your life experiences. Think of it as an opportunity to see another part of life.

I really like the answers that have been submitted to J's questions. I too believe we're complex and potentially ever-changing human beings. I also believe that labels are limiting, unnecessary, and inherently inaccurate.

I would suggest to J, however, that it isn't fair to have sex with people you have "little or no fondness for". As quaint as it may sound, men can be hurt, too. Men who are in touch with themselves have the same desire for connection that women do. If you're truly unable to give that to men, I would urge you to think twice about going to bed with them when you have nothing to offer them emotionally.

'heteroflexible or homoflexible' I had not heard those before. I love them. 

@Patrick, I disagree with your urging J not to have sex with men just because she doesn't want an emotional connection with them. As long as she is honest about that prior to having sex with men I can't see any harm in it at all. 

Liandra, I'm not sure from J's post whether or not she makes it clear to her male partners that she wants sex from them and nothing more. If she's honest about being unable to feel affection for men, at least her partners know what they're getting themselves into. I personally believe that sex without even the possibility of what J calls "fondness" is not worth having.

I do think that one experience after another of uncaring utilitarian sex will eventually damage a person. To me at least, affection and physical intimacy go together. My concerns might be clearer if we reverse the genders and imagine a man who much prefers the company of other men, but who nevertheless hooks up with women he doesn't care about simply because it feels good. Whether that man makes his position clear from the outset or not, I think it's an unwise approach for everyone concerned. I know that it's not easy to struggle with identity issues, but I don't believe that the solution to such issues is to continue a pattern of relating that has apparently caused a lot of distress and is also (I believe) unfair to the male partners.

Men, (we) are encouraged to be very driven by our own desire and dominant, with affection acompanied by feelings of ownership. She may think that stops her from feeling affection for us if her sexuality needs mutual desire and admision of vulnerability. Consciously we may be vulnerable and freely affectionate but if our libido isn't then that's a problem. This is why I stress the value of switching. It gives our emotions a break to be subservient and gives our vulnerability a place right  inside our sexuality. 

Jake, I think we're all vulnerable. Traditionally, men have been the ones who were conditioned by society to think it was OK---even expected---to go after women's bodies without "getting involved" with them emotionally. We've seen how well that worked for women. This pattern doesn't work any better for men. Everybody ends up diminished in some way.

We readers can't speak for J. We have nothing to go on but her original post. Which states clearly that she has essentially never felt any emotional connection to a man, ever. Would our readers really be comfortable telling a man who felt a similar coldness towards women to just go ahead and enjoy himself and not worry about it?

If one of J's male partners did begin to fall for her, he'd just be out of luck, because she's saying she could never return his feelings. We know the same kind of thing happens in "friends with benefits" relationships. Despite pledges of "no strings attached" sex, a lot of unhappiness has come out of bed partners who couldn't help eventually wanting more. I think that's because there's a natural connection between intimacy and caring that we deny at our peril. I wish J the best. But I also think she needs to consider the feelings of the men she's with. That's why I urged her to "think twice" about how she was relating to men.

I agree, Jake, that men are trained by our screwed-up homophobic society to be afraid of close same-sex friendships. Or afraid of emotional expression in general. I totally agree also about how little boys have a deep need to give and get appropriate affection---a need which is literally beaten out of them sometimes.

J's lack of emotional connection to men has been lifelong. Maybe one day she'll  meet a man she can really care about; maybe not. In the meantime, she's confused, unhappy, and ambivalent. Unless she tells them, the men she gets involved with aren't going to know this. They're going to be drawn into her struggles without understanding them. How does J know in advance which of her male companions might be hurt because they're looking for a personal connection she knows she can't supply? I would tell a man who got off on the female body, but who otherwise cared little for women and was confused about his orientation, to call a halt to sleeping with women until he knew his own heart and mind a lot better. I would advise J the same way.

You don't have to really care about someone to have sexual relations with them, you can just like each other. and some encounters are just raw sexual passion. I don't think the sexes are reversible on J's  dilemma with men. I don't know many men who don't have sexual relations with women because they think all the women they've met are emotionally bleak :) I don't think J's confused about her orientation either really, just by a social convention that says our sexual preferences are our identity and must fit into standard boxes.  I prefer affection and love but for me after the in love mad crush phaze is over love isn't conditional on there being sex involved. You can just look at Betty and Carlins relationship to see that.  It's kind of a moral high ground to always excuse sex by saying you must be in love or care deeply, you don't. You can like each other and like each others company. If one person falls in love and the other doesn't well that happens all the time. It's happened to me and it's very distressing but it's not the end of the world. We get over it and find someone who does love us back.  

First off, thank you Betty and Carlin for all your answers! You really helped me understand a few things better. You ladies are awesome (well, I already knew that )!

I decided to join in here, because I am definitely interested in sorting this out. Getting my thoughts out there and other people's in might help.

First of all, it's a given I tell every man I want to have sex with upfront what he can and can't expect. If he still wants it after that, fine; if not, fine too.

I'm starting to accept that my sexuality is apparently quite volatile when it comes to men. I'll be able to deal with that better than I do now sooner or later.

Now, my emotional issues with men aren't that simple. Men make great buddies (the kind you play soccer and drink beer with), but I feel like there's a kind of roadblock that I always run into and that prevents me from falling for a man or even feeling the same kind of closeness with and fondness for that I feel with and for women (which is why my feelings for men seem pretty bleak to me). I can't be sure where that came from, but I suspect it might (probably among other reasons) have something to do with my gender-issues.

I'm pretty far on the masculine side of things (so far in fact, I even considered hormones at some point; those are clearly off the cards though) and I feel competitive with men in a way I just don't and never did with women. I don't usually view men as my equals like I do women, but as potential threats to... I'm not even sure what to. Partially, my masculinity. I tend to feel a similar sense of competitiveness around other butch women, but nowhere close to that extreme. I cringe at the thought of letting a man fuck me, unless it's in the heat of passion; that's when I usually happily forget my reservations (or I strike it off the menu, if I don't; after all, there are also other nice things to do). I never have reservations about doing the same with a female partner though.

Another thing that might very well have something to do with this mess is that I used to be involved with radical lesbian politics for a good chunk of my earlier teens - with nice shots of men-are-evil-attitudes and monosexism all-inclusive. I don't think I ever consciously believed that stuff (just like I know much of the negative stuff I feel about men is irrational), but apparently my subconscious was of a different opinion.

I agree it's not necessary to be deeply in love to be intimate partners with someone. I do think a certain amount of caring and consideration for the other person (just because they're a fellow human being) is a minimum prerequisite for intimacy, though. Two people can meet, like each other, and have good sex. But J seems to be saying that she really doesn't even like the men she sleeps with. "Little to no fondness" for them. No feelings of friendship. No warmth. Nothing but physical sex. That's fine in and of itself. But perhaps some of J's distress is due to her connecting physically with people she can't seem to connect to as human beings. That sounds like a recipe for loneliness. She's unhappy, and she may be leaving some unhappy men in her wake. I don't know what kind of soul-searching or changes J may need to make in her life, but the status quo isn't working for her.

Jay, I just read your second post. I totally appreciate your honesty and willingness to share. Betty, Carlin, and the members on this site are terrific and I think you'll find a lot of people willing to help. For what it's worth, your whole second post reminded me incredibly of a lesbian friend I used to have. My friend was a self-described dyke, and very much on the butch side. We got to be pretty good friends and did some things together, like playing tennis. In my friend's case, it wasn't that she felt absolutely no attraction to men. I think she had at least a little, and we used to do a bit of flirting. I think her issue was that she really didn't trust men---at least not most of them. It's not easy for people to let someone into their lives when they feel they always have to be wary and on their guard. Wherever she is now, I hope she's happy.

Anyway, welcome, and best wishes.

Hi Jay yeah convincing your subconscious takes a bit of time I think. Though your now supplying your subconscious with an input of thoughts that want to change it and enough of those will. I'm sure you do and will have this conversation with the men you like and are attracted to and I think if they're worth being with they'll try and help you with it. 

What you said about feeing a competition type hostility is really interesting and very indicative of many other species males. I think I'm the opposite of you in that I'm mentally at the femme end of maleness but I still feel a little of that competitiveness. Anyway we can mould our subconsious and libido and I think in a few years you'll look back and find you have!! :)

Pat I prefer affection too, it's just I'm being a sex guru here :) and offering advice so I have to accept other people may have a different balance between sex and affection than me that's all. 

Jake, I know what you mean about balancing sex and affection. I know that many people here may not see things exactly as I do (sometimes to say the least ), but that's the beauty of an open forum. As long as we're respectful, we can all feel free to express our points of view. 

My first love was a girl. Before that I had crushes on boys, but absolutely no experience whatsoever and I had never been in love. Surprisingly I did not feel ashamed about it, and I had no problem telling my mother. After that I only had boyfriends and sex with men, but I did have a few crushes on women and I often fantasize about women. So am I bisexual? Heterosexual with a little curiosity? To be honest, I absolutely don't care! I am attracted to whoever I'm attracted to and that's fine! I hate labeling people and I've been thinking about that a lot lately. I have some women in my family who were married to men and had homosexual relationships after they got divorced - or the other way around, and none of that ever seemed weird to me. I am not confused at all because I was raised in the believe that love is love and everything is fine as long as I am happy. Thanks Mom!!!