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Is Female Orgasm a "Lukewarm Leftover"?

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 08:50
Submitted by Betty Dodson

Today I read a recent post by Dan Savage entitled "Broken".

The question begins with: "I am a 23-year-old female, sexually active for seven years, and I can’t reach climax. I am extremely frustrated..."

Dan Savage quotes Tracy Clark-Flory who discusses the evolutionary 'by-product theory'. According to this theory, "the female orgasm is an evolutionary hand-me-down—or, more cynically, lukewarm leftovers".

I was wondering what you thought of this Dan Savage column and the 'by-product' theory.

Thanks Betty!

Dear T,

Just read the entire awful thing and had to calm my rage in order to answer you. When Dan said, "Here come de science" I nearly barfed at the end of it. I like him for the most part but who is this Tracy Clark-Flory? She needs to be enlightened about female sexuality. It just so happens that women are far more sexual than men.. . we can continue having orgasm after orgasm as long as we are receiving the kind of stimulation we prefer. Easier said than done! Any one who harks back to pro-creation to explain sex ain't got no smarts. Sex is a fucking art form!

For me (and many others) my preference would be a vibrator on or near my clit (Never a Hitachi on Hi dumbbell) and a dildo (or long lasting firm dick) in my vagina that's covered with quality massage oil moving sweetly with a slow steady beat. Add to that a hot low down dirty fantasy, Oh yeah! In my youth, I was good for up to 4 hours masturbating or an evening of multiple sex partners (10 was a good number) when we had group sex back in the sixties. (Yes, Tracy and Dan, we had a sexual revolution. Sorry you missed it).

The biggest problem today with women enjoying orgasm is that they are using the male sexual model of fast arousal (dudes can be "ready" in seconds), fast friction fucking (necessary for most circumcised men) and quick orgasms (few guys have any come control)! Remember, for every pre-orgasmic woman their is a pre-mature ejaculating man! And neither one has been taught any sexual skills that might lead to pleasurable sensations!

Now add to that the fashionable G-spot that drove an entire generation of youth inside newly penetrated vaginas owned girls who had never learned how to masturbate to orgasm by playing with her clitoris and you have a pretty good picture of our youth today! Young women write to me describing the beginnings of an orgasm that they deny because they "didn't ejaculate" which is what the boy is waiting for so has proof he's made her come!

I'm sorry, but the last person to ask about women's orgasms would be a gay man and an academic woman with too many names.

Dr. Betty

Liberating women one orgasm at a time

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Evolution is about reward selection too.

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 10:59
Jake E

I think evolution favouring the swift male orgasm for procreation is sound, but the term luke warm left overs is scientifically  illconsidered, as well as being ridiculous and disrespectful. Procreation also favours female desire, the vaginal erection, and evolution favours intelligent beings who know their sexuality and have the capability to create a secure place to enjoy a 4 hour masturbation orgy as a destination reward for arousal. Yes reward.
 If hetro men who don't give their partners orgasms don't get to breed, that is a darwinian reward selector in favour of female orgasms and explains why they exist. 
As to the influence of past evolution on our attitudes today. Even if valuing female orgasms is a completely new thing and we are the 1st society to do that, well this is evolution, it's still happening to us and so what hasn't been done before is just as sound as what has. But the very existance of female orgasms suggests they have been demanded in the past :) when not verbally then with the natural selection of lovers to breed with that do value them.  

where's the science?

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 11:48
Yogasta (not verified)

A lot of the "science" around sex is little more than assertions based on not much more than personal beliefs that happen to fit the picture, and much less on actual good empirical data.

The book Sex At Dawn is well worth a read with respect to female sexuality and human sexuality in general. It dispels many myths with a coherent presentation of many observations.

I agree with you Yogasta!

Betty Dodson's picture
Tue, 10/04/2011 - 13:41
Betty Dodson

I had a conversation with Christopher Ryan, the author, telling him how much I adored his book. He promised to let us know the next time he's in NYC so Carlin and I can do a podcast with him and his partner who did a fabulous job of researching and documenting all the facts.

What I loved most about his book Sex at Dawn was how orgasmic women wanted and had many male partners. The concept of competing sperm makes a lot of sense when it comes to procreation. May the best and healthiest sperm win! And as for women's orgasm capacity, one of the big reasons our sexuality has been so repressed is because most men can't handle the idea they are truly the second sex when it comes orgasmic capacity!

I had to shut the paper

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 18:53
carlisleorama

I had to shut the paper before I finished this advice column from Mr. Savage. My rage was so hot that I could feel it boiling out my ears. I think the points made in it are interesting, but his wording was not to my liking. Not one bit.

why

Marias Chaos's picture
Tue, 10/04/2011 - 19:52
Marias Chaos

Why are woman asking a gay man about orgasm?

I love Dan, but ...not for female orgasm info...

Yes I can squirt--which excites men--but not me... It feels better to have a clitoral orgasm which is 10X harder for me...

You should see their dissappointment when I tell them (men) that part--they think
MAN "Oh, I know I got her off and satisfied her"
WOMAN "Uh..No. Your hard cock lasting inside me is wonderful..but Betty is right-- sex is an art"...I am till looking to be someones muse...

My husband loves the numbers game

Tue, 10/04/2011 - 20:26
Heylin

He really doesn't care how I get off during sex with him, but he loves the idea of me having a high number of orgasms. I hate to break it to him that when I really get into things, I'm not counting my orgasms. Besides how would I count a steady state orgasm? 1,2,3,4,and hold? I'd use a clicker to keep count, but dang, I've got better uses for my hands. Trying to perfect the rhythm method technique takes both hands and hubby's dick.

Way to tell it Betty

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 00:09
TANJA DIAMOND (not verified)

I am wondering about why anyone would ask Dan for advice on a woman's orgasm. Although I do love you Betty we differ on the advice about using fantasy to get off with when with a partner.
I think getting off while being disconnected is a bit like masturbating using your partner. Now that said, if a woman has never had an orgasm with a parther and needs to start there fine, however I would love to see her get to a point she can be present with what is actually going on in the here and now. 
I teach even when masturbating to be in your body and feel what is happening and allow versues try to get to orgasm.
As I said in the beginning, love your stuff and thanks for being here and all the great work you do for everyone :)
Tanja

thanks Heylin!

Marias Chaos's picture
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 09:36
Marias Chaos

WELL SAID!

The here and now is lovely

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 16:58
Jake E

The here and now is lovely and I think secret  fantasies often overlay the here and now :) and mutual fantasies are part of it. Sex is usually based on the male view. The male masterbation routine that uses foreplay simply to allow penitration. If sex is based primarily on a womans masturbation routine and pacing,  then from that should develop really good creative parner sex, because at some point in that routine there is going to be a male imperative :) wether that's manual or penatrative. Most people want to please a partner but it's that mutual sexual admiraton and imperitive that I think makes it really hot and passionate. 

Thanks Marias

Wed, 10/05/2011 - 21:01
Heylin

I've only counted once and got to 32. Now I concentrate on enjoying my orgasms during partner sex which are generally better than during solo sex. I'm working on being in the moment during orgasm and trying to stay in that state for a while longer. That is actually easier when I have hubby concentrating on providing the stim because all I have to do is feel. Fantasies are cool during sex too. Partner sex for me is more about connecting with hubby and my orgasms but solosex is my naughty fantasy land.

I read part of the article

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:08
Heylin

I really hope Dan Savage was just being a sarcastic smart ass. Anyway boys and girls, here's the science for real. The clitoris is analogous to the penis. Stimulate the clitoris and orgasm happens. Any questions? Good. Don't forget the lube and get Miss Clit involved.

Nature developed female orgasmic potential

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 23:01
Fond Care

 
No need to get wound up about Dan Savage Betty.
The implications to be drawn from Sex at Dawn is that human sexuality was converted at some point in our prehistory to become a powerful bonding force, not just for one woman to one man, but to allow a whole tribe of men and woman to bond, and live together in relatively large groups giving us a strong evolutionary advantage, and perhaps even helping us survive at times. Some of societies in the book's examples still frequently return to events that recreate this multiperson bonding effect.
Personally I think that the bonding you experience in your Bodysex groups is an intense form of just such bonding.
Furthermore, women's capability to get slowly up to a high level of excitement, and staying there while sampling (gathering for competition) the semen of a number of males, is also a key part of the natural selection process, as is the tendency of men to get turned on by seeing, and hearing, a woman with another man. All this in a high excitement, high bonding, experience.
Women's (multiple) orgasm is no shadow for our species, it was an absolutely essential capability. But perhaps one that many societies have suppressed for most of the last 10,000 years because of the mistaken idea that a single man is enought to satisfy one woman, when her capability is based around a number of males getting turned on by her, and her by them, and normally finding satisfaction this way.
 

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